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In this episode, we talk with Kylie Higgins, Lead Youth Pastor at Traders Point Christian Church, about how youth ministry leaders build a healthy team culture that lasts, even when roles shift from peer to leader. We dig into shared values, influence based leadership, and a debrief process that makes feedback feel safe and useful.

moving from teammate to team leader while leading friends

leading with influence in a dotted line structure

building shared language through clear staff values

saying values out loud until they feel normal

using celebration to shape what gets repeated

debriefing with right, wrong, missing, and confused

replacing “baby ideas” with “diamond ideas” for better feedback

grounding evaluation in humility instead of pride

 on Instagram: you can find all of our individual program accounts in the bio

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BTE 6.04 Building Healthy Team Culture with Kylee Higgins and Lauren Mallory

Brad Warren 0:03
Hi, I'm Brad Warren. This is Beyond the Event, a Youth Ministry podcast presented by Christ in Youth, where we help you maintain momentum between the mountaintops. Uh today we're going to be talking to Kylie Higgins. She is the lead student minister at Traders Point Christian Church in Indianapolis, several campuses in the Indianapolis area. She's great. She's wonderful. She's got a lot of good things that we're going to chat about. But before we do that, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have premiering on the podcast for the very first time our brand new director of Mix, Lauren Mallory. Lauren, welcome.
Lauren Mallory 0:40
Hello, Brad Warren. Thank you. I'm so glad you're here. So excited to be here.
Brad Warren 0:45
Yeah. So you're like, um, you are not that long into this. Four months. Four months. Four months in. Yep. And obviously, so you were on staff at Traders Point with Kylie, which is fun. Full circle moment for everybody. And it's going to be great. Um, you were a fan of CIY before coming here, did a lot of, went to a lot of CIY events, did the thing. You like listeners may have met you out on the road. You spoke for us for a couple summers, move and mix, and have just been around for a long time. Now that you're here, what has like surprised you about life at CIY?
Lauren Mallory 1:25
Yeah. Oh man.
Brad Warren 1:26
You did, I will say, you walked into this room where we're recording this podcast and you went, This is not what I imagined.
Lauren Mallory 1:32
No, it's not. I said that it's like when you read a book and you picture it so vividly in your mind, and then you see the movie and you're like, man, that's not what I expected. Not what I was picturing. So yeah, getting up here behind the scenes uh genuinely has been so fun. I think one of my favorite things about, you know, we just got off of our staff retreat, even just seeing some staff culture things like people just really are who they say they are. You know what I mean? Like the person you see on the platform when they're directing an event or hosting an adult leader meeting is the same person you get when you're behind the scenes. And it's just been really sweet to see how authentic and just incredible this team is. And getting to jump on that has been so fun.
Brad Warren 2:06
Yeah, it's been really great having you. It's um, you know, Mix is great. We all love Mix. Mix has been around for twelve years now. Don't ask me. Twelve years.
Lauren Mallory 2:17
I should know when I don't.
Brad Warren 2:19
I think 12.
Lauren Mallory 2:20
Sounds right.
Brad Warren 2:20
Let's all just collectively right now decide that it's 12. I'll change it on the Wikipedia page.
Lauren Mallory 2:25
Mix is a middle schooler.
Brad Warren 2:26
No, edit it in. Mix has been around for 15 years. You can put it right there. Yeah, there it is. You can just use your own voice. Yeah, great. Okay, great. Or AI.
Michael Hester 2:36
Nope. We established on the last episode. Did we actually talk about it? You asked our co-host and our
AI And The Authenticity Problem

Michael Hester 2:45
guest um thoughts on AI.
Brad Warren 2:48
I'm obsessed with it right now. What are your thoughts on AI?
Lauren Mallory 2:52
Thoughts on AI.
Brad Warren 2:54
And then we can talk about mixer problems.
Lauren Mallory 2:56
AI is there.
Brad Warren 2:57
It's there. Yeah. Oh, so we were in a van together on the way to and from uh staff retreat and got to have a lot of fascinating conversations. I feel like this came up. I can't remember. It doesn't matter.
Lauren Mallory 3:10
Surely it did.
Brad Warren 3:10
You don't have strong opinions about AI?
Lauren Mallory 3:13
Um it's more so like figuring out not to just like dive straight off the deep end, but just figuring out like how to disciple and shepherd students who are growing more comfortable with new technology than most adults are Okay.
Brad Warren 3:26
Fascinating that you say that. Okay, and maybe this I I don't know where junior hires are at with all this. Yeah, and I know I don't think anybody really does. But like the generation of people that is currently like 20 to 26 hate AI.
Lauren Mallory 3:48
Yeah.
Brad Warren 3:49
Like, do not I I posed this hypothetical to some people on my team. I said, say you, you know, they're like AI checkers. You can feed something into AI and it'll be like, this was 67% written by humans and 23% that's that that math doesn't matter. 33% written by AI. Um and I was like, tell me if you were to get like a transcript of your pastor's sermon and feed it into that, like what number would have to hit for you to be like, hmm. Let's have a conversation about this.
Lauren Mallory 4:26
Yeah, that's a that's a great question to possibly.
Brad Warren 4:30
Before I tell you where that went, I want to know what I would say for me. Did we talk about this? We did talk about this.
Lauren Mallory 4:35
Yes, yes, yes, yes. What and what I said was probably within the 10 to 15 ranges where I would really start to get nervous and want to have a conversation.
Brad Warren 4:44
My answer was single digits. I'm probably gonna just like assume the best and be like, okay, they, you know, needed to cut out 200 words or they needed to what you know. Their grammar's bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, whatever whatever it may be. Um the three people that I asked who were under the age of 26 all said if it registers at all, 1%, then a conversation needs to happen. And I was like, good for you guys.
Lauren Mallory 5:13
Honestly, I respect that.
Brad Warren 5:14
Yeah, I respect it so much.
Lauren Mallory 5:15
And I think it highlights how much Gen Z and Gen Alpha value authenticity. Like they would rather it be a scrappy sermon that's been pulled together by someone who's really doing their best to discern with the Lord, like what he has for them to speak, versus someone who has it like polished and fully fleshed out with the use of artificial intelligence. So I think that's really interesting.
Brad Warren 5:33
But it's just funny to me because I feel like for all my life, young people have been the early adopters of technology. And now, like my dad asks Grok everything. You know what I mean? And like uses AI all the time, and it's helpful for him and great. Right.
Lauren Mallory 5:50
And like it's young people who are like, aside from the ones who are like having regular conversations with AI as a like conversational tool. So I wonder if it's less about the like integrity of using it and more about the way that it's used, if that makes sense. Like used in a sermon versus used as like this AI. But I do think it is there's like inherent distrust. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brad Warren 6:16
Of just like yeah, I don't know. Thoughts? Lots. Let's talk about mix. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk about it.
Learning Mix From The Inside

Lauren Mallory 6:25
That's great.
Brad Warren 6:27
So um you are jumping to the helm of a uh a ship that has been at sea for 12 years, I guess. For 15 years. And um I'm excited. I'm excited to see what happens. Tell me what you are you kind of have a summer under your belt. Like you came in and like navigated the summer a little bit, but you know, it was you were brand new and it was, you know, that it was a weird time to start, I'm sure. Was it a weird time to start?
Lauren Mallory 6:58
In some ways, yeah. It was it was weird personally, in that like I'm moving in the middle of a summer, starting a new job, getting to a new place, and then immediately hitting the road and like trying to feel rooted and grounded while also just experiencing a lot of new all at once. But like professionally, honestly, it was like a gift that Mix was already built for the summer. Like there was no expectation for me to have all the answers or be the expert. Like I really just got to like go experience it in in full and get to just put on a new lens. Like I've had the youth pastor lens, had the guest speaker lens, and now it's like as the director of Mix, like what are the things I just get to ask questions about and like dream about in the next couple of years? So it felt like a good runway, honestly. But by the time we got to like fall mode, I was like, okay, I'm ready to do the thing. Like, let's let's dive in and let's start dreaming for 27.
Brad Warren 7:40
Yeah. What I what what's what are your dreams for 2027 for me?
Lauren Mallory 7:45
Yeah, we've been having some really great conversations with the Mix team. Um, I just get to work with some really brilliant minds who really care deeply about middle schoolers and about this program. And, you know, within the Mix logo, there's a hidden logo. Don't know if everybody knows that, but there's the pause sign and the play button sign. And so we talk a lot at our events about pause and play and that being just like such a beautiful part of the middle school life where, like, yes, middle schoolers want to play, they want to have fun, they want to run around, they want to be silly and goofy, but also they want to be challenged to pause and to think critically and to like truly rise to the occasion. And so we've just been having some conversations about like what does it look like to continue to build intentional spaces where middle schoolers get to play and embrace just being kids and make memories, and also where are those intentional spaces where we get to lean in and pause and bring them even more um deeper into their discipleship and their understanding of the gospel? And so um one thing we're dreaming about is just giving Rec and Outer Realm a big refresh this next year and just trying a few new things to see um ways that we can make it um continue to be really fun and really engaging moments to make memories, but also make it sustainable as we grow. You know, when we initially built Outer Realm, we
Designing Pause And Play Moments

Lauren Mallory 8:55
were looking at groups of 300 playing a game. Now we have events that have, you know, over 1200. And so just looking for ways to kind of give it a refresh and flip the script, and then even with Rec, just figuring out like how do we um yeah, create really intentional moments where youth pastors can sit down and work on a puzzle with their kids and have a really good time doing it and um just little little elements woven throughout the week where they can step into some fun moments um and have intentional conversations. And then on more of like the pause side of things, you know, this summer we got to try our like gospel bingo, which was an experience where students got to run around with bingo cards and they got to go meet new people and practice sharing the gospel with them. And, you know, we had tw over 24,000 students in attendance this summer, and all of them had the opportunity to practice um sharing the gospel. And so we just saw something really beautiful happen with that, where these middle schoolers are so brave and they're so willing to try these things and step outside of their comfort zones in ways that I think might challenge the average adult Christ follower who's probably a little more intimidated about the concept of going and sharing the gospel with someone. And so we just want to harness that. Like, what are the spaces where like we have this group that's so modal and so open and um ready to dive in? Like, what are what are the intentional spaces where they can um have an element like that where they get to take what they're learning at mix and really tangibly put it to practice and go home equipped to live it out?
Brad Warren 10:16
So the the sharing the gospel thing was wild because I saw this play out at move, I did not see it play out at Mix. Um but like we heard some insane stories from people about just like how their students chose to interact with that.
Lauren Mallory 10:37
Yeah.
Brad Warren 10:38
Um what were a couple, like I feel like you shared a couple. Help me out with that, refresh my memory.
Lauren Mallory 10:44
Well, one, I just want to like paint a picture and I want you to just like imagine you're standing out on a ball field and there are a thousand middle schoolers running around, and all you hear is just the chatter of them sharing the gospel with each other, and like a student runs up to you and asks you, Can I share the gospel with you? Like that happened to me a couple times at some events that I was at, and that was just so beautiful and really special to be a part of. But this is um not a because of the you know, bingo experience, but I think just highlights the like impact that that kind of an activity can have. I was at Indiana One at Taylor University for our mix event, and there was an adult sponsor who was there, um, leading with her church, and one of our staff members, the wonderful Mallory Jenkins, um started a conversation with her and was just asking, you know, how do you get involved with Mix and your youth group? And she said, the reason that I'm here is because my 11-year-old daughter shared the gospel with me. And she was like, I accepted Christ because she brought the gospel into our home. And she even said, like, my daughter has been like my primary discipleship voice in my life. And she's like, now I'm involved in church, now I'm serving in the youth group, and I get to be here with her. And she was like, Yes, I'm, you know, growing in my faith and I'm here to like help lead. But the reality is she's like, I get to learn and be discipled right alongside my daughter this week. And it's just such a cool, cool picture of the multi-generational impact that happens as a result of equipping and empowering students to go home and share their faith. And so I'm hopeful and excited that there are gonna be a lot more stories like that next summer, now that we've really um hit the gas on encouraging and empowering students to share their faith.
Brad Warren 12:10
Yeah, it's gonna be so fun. Yeah. It's gonna be so fun. It feels like um in some ways that we just got done with 2026, and also in some ways it feels like 2026 is basically over, and so therefore it's basically January, and so therefore it's basically summer of 2027. Like there's some there's a little bit of that. Um but I'm really excited. I'm pumped to to see where we head in 2027. I'm excited too. Uh we're gonna go talk to Kylie, but before we do that, um do you want a new mic up? A or B. A or B? I don't know. You choose.
Lauren Mallory 12:52
B.
Michael Hester 12:53
B. Uh
New York Plans And Broadway Debates

Michael Hester 12:55
I have a I have an upcoming work trip to New York, and I have approximately eight hours of free time in New York into two different chunks. Yes.
Brad Warren 13:04
What are you doing on a work trip to New York City? Uh research.
Lauren Mallory 13:08
Hmm. AI research?
Michael Hester 13:11
It is not AI research, but AI would have been connected to A option if if that was what you guys went with. So A for AI, B for Broadway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There we go. You know what? Yeah. No, that's not what I was thinking, but yeah. Um I am trying to really figure out what I think I'm going to do. Okay. So here are some initial thoughts for uh a morning chunk of free time that I'm gonna have. But I'm really trying to figure out what I'm gonna do for an evening chunk of free time that I'm gonna have. Are you ready? For the morning, I think I'm gonna try and get up early, like out the door by 6 a.m. Do a sunrise ride on the Staten Island ferry. Take hopefully take some nice, beautiful pictures. Um, I'm probably gonna go out and then back. It's free, which is awesome. So it's not gonna cost me any money. I'm sure I'm gonna get a bunch of great characters because it'll be people's morning commutes to work. Um, and then it's been recommended that I go check out Brooklyn, so like walk the Brooklyn Bridge, check out Dumbo Park. Don't know anything about that, but I heard it's cool. That's great. Um, and then I'm probably gonna try and also grab a bite to eat before meeting back up with the rest of the team for lunch plans before our afternoon activity. Then there's free time that evening. Sunsets at 4 50. Isn't that crazy? A little crazy. Um yeah, free time's gonna start at like 4 30, and I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. Everyone else is gonna be like, yeah, we're gonna go to a show or something, and I don't think I actually really want to do that. So um have you done it before?
Brad Warren 14:38
I have never been.
Lauren Mallory 14:39
Oh man. Oh, I've never been to New York either.
Brad Warren 14:42
Oh my gosh, I have.
Lauren Mallory 14:43
Okay, Brad.
Brad Warren 14:45
You have an evening.
Michael Hester 14:46
So I okay here's what I here's what I will say. I had a conversation with Andy Funes this morning. Yeah. Um, and he recommended I do a food crawl. Yeah.
Brad Warren 14:57
But only in Chinatown. Oh, okay. I love Chinatown. And that like there's so many good like little bowel places and all kinds of stuff. Here's one thing I will say. There's a Chinese ice cream shop
Gospel Bingo And Brave Middle Schoolers

Brad Warren 15:10
um that has like traditional Chinese flavors of ice cream. And I'm gonna tell I'm gonna tell you something right now, and it's gonna sound weird. Okay. They have an ice cream flavor called Black Sesame. It's black sesame ice cream, and it is one of the most bizarre things. It's one of those things where like I tried it and I was like, oh gosh, that's odd. And then I ate the whole thing and it was wild. So try some black sesame ice cream, that'll be delicious. Also, probably a good idea to spend some time in Central Park if you don't have any other and at night, Central Park is actually really pretty and will be cool.
Michael Hester 15:50
Um years ago, I heard um an anecdote from my dad. He went on a trip to New York one time, and I think a taxi driver had said anybody who goes to Central Park at night gets what they're asking for.
Brad Warren 16:02
So What did he go in 1976? What are we talking about here? Uh like probably 2008. Oh yeah, no, it's better.
Lauren Mallory 16:10
Okay, great.
Brad Warren 16:11
I don't know if it is or not. Um the World Trade Center thing is pretty cool. Like the they have like little reflecting things where the towers used to be. That's pretty neat to see and experience.
Michael Hester 16:25
One of my grievances as I've tried to do some research is during the week, all the museums and all the other like like kind of ticketed kinds of things, yeah, they close at like between five and six.
Lauren Mallory 16:37
I know this is a tough window because I do feel like what I've heard is there are so many incredible cafes and coffee shops and like you know, morning time locations. I'm like, what do you do?
Brad Warren 16:49
But everything is open all day in New York. So it's the city that never sleeps.
Lauren Mallory 16:53
Sure.
Brad Warren 16:54
Who needs a caffeine window except for during the week in New York? Um going up high at some point, either like the one I did was Top of the Rock, didn't Rockefeller Center Plaza. Also, there are a lot of shows that film in New York that um do f like it's free to go to Jimmy Fallon. Right. You just have to like enter the lottery or whatever. So so like it could be fun to like see what that ticketing process is like and like try to go do something like that or you know, ride the subway until it ends. I've heard it's a pretty haunting experience. I don't know, you know. Here's the thing about New York you can you could go for 10 days pack all of your days full and not do everything that there is to do. It's it's wild. I'm yeah, and you know, I'm not worried about yeah, it's it's it's crazy. I mean, we haven't even talked about like Statue of Liberty, which you can go just see from like the southern tip of the island. You don't have to actually go out there, but you can go to Battery Park and whatever. You can run around, try to find Robert De Niro, Martin Scorsese, see what happens. Woody Allen still is there, I think. Don't talk to him, people don't like him. Um, but yeah, New York is great. Having said that, should we go talk to our friend Kylie?
Lauren Mallory 18:20
Let's talk to Kylie. Let's talk to Kylie.
Meeting Kylie And Summer Chaos

Brad Warren 18:25
Kylie Higgins. Hi.
Kylee Higgins 18:28
Hi. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so excited to be here.
Brad Warren 18:32
Um, fun thing. This is a fun reunion because me and you and Michael got to hang out at Traders Points Week of Move at Taylor University this summer, and it was so fun. That feels like it was a lifetime ago now. What do you remember? What what like let's share some good memes?
Kylee Higgins 18:55
Yeah. What I remember from this summer, it also feels like it was yesterday and a year ago. Did you did you move up for the tail end of it?
Michael Hester 19:04
No, but but Lauren was at their week of mix. So Lauren was at their week of mix.
Brad Warren 19:08
So we're all reunioning. Also, this is at Taylor with Lauren.
Kylee Higgins 19:12
Yeah. And then I went to Taylor, I went to go see Lauren at Taylor as well.
Michael Hester 19:16
Oh my gosh, we've all the Venn diagram is a circle. This is a Vin almost. Yeah, okay.
Lauren Mallory 19:23
Might I add that this is also a fun reunion because Kylie and I used to work together. I never said that, but I just want to highlight she's a great panel.
Kylee Higgins 19:33
Listen, not to give too much of a teaser about our content for today, but Lauren knows our team and like our team dynamic and our culture. And right when I stepped into my new role where I get to lead the team, is right when Lauren stepped into a different role at Trader's Point. So Lauren and I never actually got to be on the team together while I was leading it, but Lauren and I have some really great memories from both being youth pastors on this team.
Brad Warren 19:59
So wonderful.
Kylee Higgins 20:00
No, this summer was so fun. I remember when um I originally found out that Brad was gonna be the director in our week and that Michael was gonna be with us at both weeks of the summer. My first thought is Brad is either going to love me or hate me by the end of this season. I don't know if we're gonna be best friends or he's gonna be so tired of me because I'd never done camp in this capacity before. So I was like, maybe I'm gonna drive him crazy.
Brad Warren 20:29
I don't get too much.
Kylee Higgins 20:29
And then I think I think we became friends. Yeah. We were friends, but I think we became closer friends as a result of this summer.
Brad Warren 20:37
Yeah, I remember you coming to preview days and being like, what are we doing? Like what help, you know? And my favorite thing was taking the whole like director responsibilities and assistant director responsibilities and EC responsibilities and four different colors of highlighters and being like, okay, you're gonna do this and I'm gonna do this, and Michael's gonna do this, and Liv is gonna do this. And it was so fun.
Kylee Higgins 21:03
I actually still have those papers, and maybe we should like frame them as a memory of like the first summer camp that we could do.
Brad Warren 21:11
Someday that's gonna be like, you know, when people like sketch out business ideas on a cocktail napkin and then they end up saving it forever and they're like, Yeah, this was the beginning. Or maybe like this was this was the first one, the first uh traders point move custom week.
Kylee Higgins 21:24
So true. I knew camp, but I just didn't know the inner workings of it. And so when Brad pulled out the highlighters, I was like, This is what I needed. I needed somebody to really just walk me through this.
Brad Warren 21:34
So it's a lot, it's a lot. Yes, yeah, it's a lot, and you did a wonderful job your first time through. Thank you. Well, I wasn't a mix. How'd she do?
Lauren Mallory 21:44
Oh, she rocked it. Okay, great. Absolutely crashed. So just four highlighters and a dream, you know. Four highlighters.
Kylee Higgins 21:50
Four highlighters and a dream.
Lauren Mallory 21:52
That's all you need.
Brad Warren 21:52
That's all you need. Um, well, Kylie, I did have a wonderful time at Taylor University with you and your team. And I'm I'm sure that uh Michael would say the same.
Michael Hester 22:07
Yes, I would.
Brad Warren 22:07
I didn't wait for the first time. Well, I did want to I I wanted to give you an opportunity if you needed to refute anything to just be like actually.
Michael Hester 22:16
Yeah, no, okay, great. No, the both of those weeks, the mix and the move, are some of the weeks that I remember the most from the summer. Mike Fondley. I should include.
Brad Warren 22:26
We did um another memory from Traders Points move was getting a generator that didn't have a working gas gauge on it. Yeah. And that sucker ran out of gas.
Michael Hester 22:37
The lesson I learned. Do some research if you find out that a component's not working.
Brad Warren 22:42
How would you have known though?
Michael Hester 22:43
Like how no.
Brad Warren 22:47
I I don't know. I think it's no.
Kylee Higgins 22:50
It wasn't actually until Michael posted on Instagram about this summer that I actually even knew what happened. Because that afternoon.
Lauren Mallory 22:57
Oh, really? So really?
Kylee Higgins 22:59
Yeah, I had no idea what happened. I mean, I knew it ran out of gas, but I didn't know like why or what was happening. Because that afternoon, we had a few like students that had some like physical crises going on. We had to send a student to the hospital to get checked out. Like we were just were dealing with some people things, and then a massive thunderstorm.
Michael Hester 23:16
This wasn't the same day. Yeah. Was that was that the same thing?
Kylee Higgins 23:20
And then a massive thunderstorm came through, and we were supposed to all be outside. So then we had to like pivot and move everybody inside. And after like the most chaotic afternoon, I just get a text that's like, hey, the generator's not working and like we have no power for session. And I was like, I'm not even gonna ask questions. We're gonna fix it.
Brad Warren 23:38
I that was all the same day. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, if she says it's the same day, it's the same day. It's all just like a mush in my mind. Yeah, I don't, you know.
Kylee Higgins 23:46
And it was also the same day that we flooded one of the boys' dorms.
Brad Warren 23:49
Yes. Boy, I remember that.
Kylee Higgins 23:52
I remember the same afternoon.
Brad Warren 23:54
Remember walking around with my buddy Stacy in muck boots trying to get all that cleaned up. That was crazy.
Lauren Mallory 23:59
Meanwhile, I'm texting Kylie and I'm like, it's move week. I hope you guys are having the best week ever. I miss you guys, you know, whatever. And she's like, Lauren, you have no idea what's going down right now.
Kylee Higgins 24:09
Yeah, crazy. That did that afternoon, and all of the chaos and all of the crazy led to probably one of the like most beautiful experiences of just like authentic acoustic worship that I've had with students so far. And like it really marked our team, and our team still talks about it and reminisces, and so but I actually didn't know what went wrong until Michael had posted on Instagram that is so funny. Um she ran out of gas. Yeah, yep, she ran out of gas.
Michael Hester 24:38
But that's all right.
Kylee Higgins 24:39
The Holy The Holy Spirit did it and when did he show up? So he did.
Michael Hester 24:45
Snap was great. Snaps for the spirit.
Brad Warren 24:47
It was a it was a it was a good night. Um okay, let's get to what we all came here to talk about. Uh
Culture As A Leadership Discipline

Brad Warren 24:55
Kylie, this season on the podcast. Uh so this is our sixth season. For five seasons, uh it's just been me being like, we should talk about this. And I don't want to, I don't I didn't want to do that. I'm tired of deciding what to talk about. I'm tired of making any kind of decision really at all. Um so I I wanted to know what youth pastors want to talk about, what they think is important to be talking about. And after especially our summer together, you're a person who I respect and a person who I think has a great mind for youth ministry and has built a great team. And so I wanted to know what you wanted to talk about. So, what are we gonna talk about?
Kylee Higgins 25:40
Yeah, today we are gonna talk about team culture and what it looks like to build a healthy team to sustain healthy culture. And this is my first year of leading a team. And so this is not coming from an expert seat, but more like, man, these are maybe some of the things that I've learned in my first year of leading a team of youth pastors that I would love to chat about and learn from you guys as well of like what it looks like to build healthy team culture and how culture isn't built by accident, it's a discipline. And sometimes I don't think we always think about culture as a discipline.
Brad Warren 26:15
So yeah. And like, so I do want to frame it a little bit for people who are listening, because like you like in in a lot of ways, Traders Point represents like the 1%, right? It's like we do not serve a lot of churches that are as big as Traders Point, and like the Lord has blessed the Ministry of Traders Point in some insane ways. It's grown explosively over the course of the past several years. And so, like, you when you talk about like leading a team, you are talking about who?
Kylee Higgins 26:47
Great question. Yeah, when I'm thinking about leading a team, I'm thinking about the team of youth pastors that I get to shepherd. So we're a multi-site environment, so we have youth pastors at every one of our campuses. So our youth team um is in different seasons with residents and interns anywhere from nine people to 15 people. But um I think a lot of the principles that we talk about today can be overarching for people who lead volunteers, people who lead maybe just like one or two other staff people. Maybe you're on um a staff team that as you're leading it, it's not just the youth pastor, but the youth pastor leads the kids' pastor and the group's pastor. And so I hope our conversation today can be helpful for people regardless of context, but that is like the context I'm thinking of. Yeah. And like where a lot of these lessons were learned for me was that like multi-site youth pastor context.
Brad Warren 27:38
Well, and that's a lot of what I wanted to get out anyway, is like if you're a youth pastor and you start thinking through like, okay, who is my who is my team? Um there are a lot of people who are going to be thinking about some different ways that they can like lead up. Every youth pastor is a part of a staff team, even if it's just like, oh, it's me and the senior pastor and a part-time office administrator. That was my first staff that I that I was a part of. Or um when they think about like uh leading out or or leading down, like thinking through like who are my volunteers, who are some of my key volunteers, or even like some of my student leaders, or those types of things, but like would encourage a youth pastor listening to this to just set that framing in your mind of like who is my team, because you do need a team in order to make youth ministry happen. And even though we're gonna be talking about this idea of like uh leading a staff team, there are definitely principles I know that will apply in other contexts as well. So um you guys have you're multi-site, you have youth pastors at each of these locations. Here's another hard thing that you're dealing with, I think, is that like none of these people report to you, which um like a little peek behind the curtain at CIY too is also kind of the seat that Lauren sits in, where it's like Lauren is the director of Mix, you're the mix person, great. I'm sure you have this big awesome team that report to you that help you make mix happen, right?
Lauren Mallory 29:08
You would think. But that's not the way it works.
Brad Warren 29:11
That's not how we're structured, right? So um talk a little bit about uh talk a little bit about uh the structure, which is like boring. So you can just say it in like one or sentence and a half, maybe. But then also like how you view your leadership role on the team,
Leading By Influence Not Power

Brad Warren 29:30
because it's not like a traditional like I'm these people's boss thing.
Kylee Higgins 29:36
Yeah, yeah, correct. That's great framing. Yeah. So at Traders Point, we have uh central teams, which central teams serve um all of the ministry at Traders Point, regardless of campuses. And then we have campus teams who are local and in one location, in one community that serve together. And so I sit in a central seat. So the work that I do serves Traders Point youth across the board, regardless of uh location, regardless of um what size the campus is, anything like that. But a youth pastor's direct report, so their their boss, their manager, if you will, is their campus pastor. So they're like local leader. Um and then I am what's called their dotted line supervisor. So um the way that I would kind of frame my leadership and the seat that I get to sit in with the youth team is the way that I frame it is influence more than power. Um, that when it comes to being somebody's dotted line, and I helps to set the vision and the strategy and the systems and processes for Traders Point as a whole. Um but at the end of the day, I'm on a team with their campus pastor, and their campus pastor is uh running alongside me and taking most of the ownership and the weight of like development and like that more manager responsibilities, um, and also helping to like care for the well-being of our staff and our youth pastors. So yeah, the way that I describe my role is again more influence than power that um I'm thinking again, big picture vision and strategy and making a lot of recommendations and thinking about our campuses as a whole. Um, but my leadership is influencing a team, but also working on a team as far as like who we get to influence. So there's a lot that's called a matrix organization, as you guys know in CIY. So there's just like a lot of layers and a lot of people in a lot of different rooms, but I love it because then you're not leading in a silo. Like there's very rarely a decision that I make alone. And so culture is like everything that we do here. Um yeah.
Brad Warren 31:35
What do you what do you what do you love about your staff culture? What's like, you know, brag brag on it a little bit for me. What what what is uh appealing to you about working at Traders Point?
Kylee Higgins 31:48
Great question. Um, I love our staff culture because um it's modeled by humility. We have something uh here at Traders, the Traders 10, which are like the 10 behaviors that we hope that every staff person at Traders Point um models, and all of them come out of an overflow of our relationship with Jesus. And um, one of the things that was so evident to me when I first began working at Traders Point is the Traders 10 is first like modeled and carried by our executive leadership. And it is so evident the way um that they just like live and breathe their relationship with Jesus, and it influences every single thing that they do in their leadership. And when your leaders are healthy and when they are modeling healthy staff culture and what it looks like to follow Jesus, then it frees you up as a leader to do the same and to first like lead from a seat of your relationship with Jesus and from that being like the overflow. Um, the thing that I love about the youth team specifically and working at Traders Point, um, I have had the privilege of knowing and working for both of the leaders that led the youth team before me. Um they were both incredible, incredible women that did such a great job to like set a really healthy culture on the youth team. And so I've been really fortunate to inherit a good culture and to watch really good and healthy leaders lead the youth team. And so um, the culture of the youth team is so fun and so relational. It's very honest and authentic. One of the, I think, our superpowers as a team is our ability to like debrief really honestly without hurting other people's feelings. Um, I think that's been a gift of our culture. And so, yeah, our traders point culture as a whole is so healthy, and all the credit goes to our executive leadership and just the way that they model that for the rest of our staff. But um, again, getting to follow two incredibly healthy leaders means that they left me a healthy team to shepherd after them. And that is a gift that I know not every leader gets when they step into a leadership seat. Sometimes it's hard seasons of shifting culture and navigating change. And there's always going to be some of that in leadership. I have had to do some of that, but for the most part, um, the health of our organization has led me to a seat of getting to lead a healthy team. Um, and I'm really grateful for that.
Lauren Mallory 34:08
Yeah, if I can brag on our friends at Traders Point for just a second, like having lived in it, um, the culture there is it truly is rock solid from the top down. It is just so crystal clear what the cultural behaviors and values are and modeled so beautifully and celebrated so well. And it's just a really sweet picture of what it looks like to walk in the way of Jesus together as staff as you continue to do the kingdom work that you guys are doing. And Kylie, I'm curious when you mentioned, you know, seeing your role as a way to like lead with influence rather than power, you've made a really strategic move this past year from, you know, being a peer and being one of the youth pastors on the team to now stepping into this leadership seat. And I'm sure we have people listening who also know what it's like perhaps to step into a new role of leadership or to take on um, you know, people that are becoming um direct reports. So I'm just curious, like, how have you navigated that transition and specifically through the lens of like stewarding your influence now from a new, a new point of view?
Kylee Higgins 35:07
Yeah, so I was a campus youth pastor on this team before I was leading this team. So I got to sit in the seat that the people that I lead um are sitting in. So that makes the perspective really unique. And I'm really grateful that I got to experience being on this team before leading this team. I think it really helped me understand again, like our culture versus maybe coming in from the outside. Um, I remember the day when uh the previous youth leader named Natalie Vance, when she left, she left a book for me on my desk called From Bud to Boss. And she wrote a little sticky note and stuck it on the front and said, You're gonna want to read this. And in my ignorance and probably a little bit of my pride, I remember looking at that book going, you know what? I don't think it's that hard to lead your friends. You know, like I think we're gonna figure it out. We all love each other, we all love Jesus. This is gonna be great. And yes, I love my friends, and yes, we all love Jesus, but stepping into a leadership role compared to being their peer was a much bigger adjustment than I think I was fully prepared for. And um, again, our team is healthy. There was no like, there was nothing major that was like wrong, but the dynamic just shifts, right? Of like the rooms that I'm sitting in isn't always the room that they get to sit in anymore. And their first conversation of processing a change that's either happening in our organization or happening on our team used to be with me, and now it's going to be with somebody else. Because when they bring processing to me, um, just because of the influence that I now have, I sit in a different seat. And so there was definitely some grieving of that season and um navigating what it looks like for leadership to get a little bit more lonely as you move up the ladder, I think. Um, and not that my goal was to move up the ladder or or climb the ladder, but just the reality that like the higher you go, the less people get to be in a lot of the rooms where the decisions are made. And that actually makes it lonely. Um, so I think there was some grieving of that. Um the unique blessing in that in leading your friends is um I know their hearts, I know their passion, I know their gifting, I know their talent, um, I know what their home lives are like and who their family is. And um, getting to like pastor and shepherd people that I know really well on like a really deep level has allowed trust to be built faster. It makes decisions a lot easier to have because I sit or a lot easier to make because I'm sitting shoulder to shoulder with a friend and not somebody that I'm like, I don't know who you are and how you think. And so it definitely has both sides, both sides to it, that there's a grieving and a loneliness of like, oh, I'm now a boss to my peers. And on the other hand, like getting to lead people that you know and love and trust with your whole heart, like there's nothing better than to hand a decision down and know exactly who you're handing it to, and that they are gonna thrive with it and they're gonna love it and um it fits within their gifting and their passion. So in different seasons and in different moments, I've felt both, but it was more of a transition than I was ready for. And if I were to go back and give myself advice a year ago, I would tell younger Kylie, pick up that book and read it because like it's gonna hit you a lot harder than you thought it would. And um yeah, it's been great, but there's also it was a bigger adjustment than I was ready for for sure.
Brad Warren 38:38
Yeah, you you
Shared Values That Get Said Out Loud

Brad Warren 38:40
mentioned um that right off the top you mentioned that like culture takes work, culture is a discipline. Stepping into this role, it's w where when you're like a member of a team, you get to contribute to the culture, but uh have less influence in defining it. Um and now you're in a seat where it's like, okay, maintaining the culture of this team is in some ways my responsibility. And you've mentioned a couple of different things that I want to use almost as like case studies and just kind of I want to peel back some layers of them because I think they're interesting. I'll let you choose what we talk about first. One of the things you said that I'm really interested in is you talk about this like trader's ten and in general just like having a shared uh um language uh having this kind of like creed that you're all able to follow together and the role that that plays in helping like maintain the culture is something that I want to talk about. And I want to talk about your guys' culture of um honesty in your communication and your f like evaluation culture. Like I want to talk about because that's a really hard thing for some people. Um especially like if you're I'm actually now putting myself in the shoes of a youth pastor who's not a part of a team. And it's like you have a volunteer come up to you and be like, Hey, I have some thoughts about how move went this year. Like, can we talk about that? And it's easy to uh really take those things personally and internalize them, and they become things that like define you in your inner monologue, and that's unhealthy. And then there's a weird interpersonal thing between me and this person who said this, and that can like really, really, really quickly get weird. And so I want to know what you do to like protect that culture and what you do to protect your heart and your mind when you're kind of like going through those evaluation processes and continuing to try to get better as a team. You take your pick, door number one or door number two.
Kylee Higgins 40:56
Are we going through both doors or only one door?
Brad Warren 40:59
We're going through both doors.
Kylee Higgins 41:01
Okay, it's just a matter of which other first. Can we go? I just want to do that. Do we have time to go through both doors?
Brad Warren 41:07
Oh, yeah, we have time.
Kylee Higgins 41:08
Both doors. I don't know. You're in charge. Both doors. Okay. Both doors. Okay. Well, let's start with like shared language and what that looks like because that truly sets the precedent for like the culture of not just the youth team, but like the entire Traders Point staff. So the Traders 10 are our staff behaviors and values that, again, are not exclusive to our youth pastors, but are true of every single staff member. Um, and are again living out of our character and out of an overflow of our relationship with Jesus. In fact, one of the traders 10 is out of the overflow. Um, and the thing that I love about having shared language like that, having something that um is not just like a fun thing that you stick up on the wall so that when you're walking somebody through the building, you can be like, here's what we value. But it's like truly what you live out is that it gives the shared language for both celebration and for feedback. And it like gives you something to ground both of those things in. Like when there's no expectations set from the beginning, and expectations maybe even too strong of a word, like truly, while our values are expectations, they're also like our hopes and our prayers of like what it looks like to live a life in the abundance of Jesus, is like truly where our staff behaviors come from. Um, so when you have that like set in stone from the beginning and everybody knows the expectation, the hope of what it looks like to be on staff at Traders Point, be on the youth team at Traders Point, then when it comes to celebrating somebody, then we have language to like concrete celebrate something that they did. So one of our values is make bold moves. So when one of our youth pastors comes up with a really new and cool idea to uh reach students in their community by getting involved in the schools and showing teacher appreciation this way, when it comes to celebrating them, we have the language around that of like, hey, we want to celebrate the way that like you moved in boldness to like advance the kingdom of God in your community. And that shared language um helps our celebration be really specific, which helps people feel really seen and known and loved. And then the same is true with feedback that um one door at a time.
Brad Warren 43:22
One door at a time.
Kylee Higgins 43:23
I'm still on the first door.
Brad Warren 43:25
You just said feedback. Okay, fine, go ahead. You can okay, go ahead.
Kylee Higgins 43:29
Um feedback and evaluation in my brain are two different buckets.
Brad Warren 43:33
Okay, go ahead.
Kylee Higgins 43:34
So going back to feedback, shared language though, when it comes to like individuals and our ministry as a whole, like having that shared language of like staff behaviors and values makes it it's never easy to give feedback and to like receive difficult feedback. But then it like helps again set the precedent of like, hey, this is what we want for you, this is our hope for you and our dream for you. And so here. In like really specific language that makes sense to you because you've seen the staff behaviors, you've seen the staff values, like makes it easier to offer like grace and truth and correction to people because again, they have those values that like everything is is built on that foundation. So for us, that's the power of shared language and shared values. And then um, when people are living out of them, then like our team culture is shaped by them because everybody individually knows what it takes to like build a culture because it's written out for them in those in those 10.
Brad Warren 44:34
I'm curious though, I feel like Traders Point, as I've been around more and more people who are involved in that organization. And like obviously, I mean, you're the third person we've had on this podcast from your staff. Lauren works here. My best friend works at Traders Point. Like, I I I've I'm I'm intimately as intimately familiar with your uh culture as someone can be who doesn't attend the church or work on staff there. But um like I'm curious how much you actually say those things because I'm thinking about CIY and I'm thinking about all of the churches out there who have values that are somewhere like articulated. Like they all have them. Christ Church of Ornogo, I'm sure, has them. Um and like we have five. Like see the Imago Day, play it forward, own your outcomes. I don't remember what the other two are. Not gonna sit here and try. Do you remember?
Lauren Mallory 45:36
Collaborate with purpose.
Brad Warren 45:37
Collaborate with purpose.
Kylee Higgins 45:40
That's all I got.
Brad Warren 45:41
I just said I wasn't gonna I I just said I wasn't gonna sit here and try to remember, but now that we've got four of the fifth five. For some reason, settling for three out of the five felt fine, but now that we have four out of the five, it's like I need that fifth one. Um anyway, Michael's gonna look it up and then he's gonna tell us. Oh yeah, led by the spirit. I think that might be right. Um so anyway, we have these five values, and I think that they are five things that like define our culture. But we don't say those things very much. And like I I wonder if like I lead people here at Christ and Youth. I have people that report to me, and like I'm wondering if you can convince me that actually like saying those words more has value. Because I feel like the thing that differentiates your guys' values from like other churches and even from CIYs in some ways is like I feel like you guys just say it more. And it feels like well, go ahead. I'm gonna, yeah. I have some thoughts about this, but you know, I want to hear what you have to say.
Kylee Higgins 46:47
Sure. I love that you are expecting like a shark tank pitch here. Like if I can convince you to actually say the magic words, then your culture will be unlocked.
Brad Warren 46:56
Well, that's uh interesting that you say magic words because it's like it almost feel when you're like trying to use those things in conversation, it can feel clunky. Yeah. And like disingenuous even at times when it's like, oh, we're gonna go play it forward today. And you know, like it's like, why are you talking like that? You know? But there is value to that. So I wanna I wanna hone in on that. I wanna hone in on the value of like being willing to say the clunkier thing because it is shared language and it does actually help promote good culture. Does that make sense?
Kylee Higgins 47:30
Yeah. No, absolutely. Um, I'm even just like laughing and reflecting on like our staff culture. Um it is so ingrained in, in my opinion, it's so ingrained in like our everyday language that sometimes I don't even realize that I'm accidentally saying it until the other day we were like getting ready to. This is not one of our trader's 10, but one of our church like mission vision statements. But we were getting ready to go out to lunch, and we were, you know, the right before you're getting ready to go out to lunch, and everybody's like, okay, we're gonna carpool. And then it's that horrible moment where it's like, I have three seats, I have two. I'm parked in the front and the back, and it becomes like this whole organizational nightmare. Everybody just drives, you're just trying to go out to lunch, you know. So we spent 10 minutes trying to figure out who was going in what car and where we were gonna go, and just like off-handedly, I said, Okay, let's deploy for impact. And that's like part of our mission statements as a church. And ironically, you said that's just and somebody started laughing at me, and I was like, Why are you laughing? And they're like, Because that sounds like if you were to say that anywhere else, but everybody was like, Yeah, time to deploy for impact. Like it was, it is so ingrained in our culture, and genuinely, um, I have to give so much of the credit of that to like our our executive leadership that like they say it unironically, they say it often, they repeat it. And when they are casting vision in our once-a-month all staff meetings, and when they are um like dreaming with us about like where Traders Point is going and who we're gonna become, like this is just second nature language to them. It's not just something that they um wrote down somewhere so that we could say we have values, like it is truly like their heartbeat for our church is to live these out. And so that I think the way that our language is like used and so normalized, so much of that credit goes to the fact that like our executive level leadership says it, repeats it, and makes it so normal for everybody else to like know it and live out of it. Um, I think one of the things that has helped me and the way that I kind of see our language is like genuinely, whenever I'm like trying to find a way to describe something, rather than like reinventing the wheel, it's just so easy for me to like remember and go back to the fact that like we genuinely already have something written down. So I'm thinking of um, I think it was at in the spring of last year, uh we always do like an all-staff celebration where we just again celebrate the trader send and all the time.
Brad Warren 49:52
Stay it forward, some would say.
Kylee Higgins 49:55
We celebrate the trader set. Well, we call it up, honor, up, down, all around. So we're honoring the people in every direction. And um, we were gonna do some celebrations as a youth team staff. And I was like, how are we gonna do this? What way are we gonna celebrate? Like, how are we getting them to celebrate one another? And so we just use the trader's 10. And we said, like, hey, we're going to like call out each other in the room for the ways that they like live out the trader's 10. It like truly saves us from having to reinvent the wheel and think of new language when it's like, man, the language is already gifted to us and given to us. Um, and again, it is like our executive leadership and how often they use it and how normal they make it sound and make it feel. And then I think it's the culture of celebration that like when we talk about the trader's 10, it's almost always in the way of celebration that we're celebrating somebody who uh is living out the trader's 10 in this way. We are acknowledging or recognizing somebody that's like living out this specific value. And um, the old saying, like what gets celebrated gets repeated. And it's like, hey, if we are using the trader's 10 and like our shared language in the form of celebration more and then in the form of like feedback and correction, though it is helpful for that too, then like people want to use that language because it has like a positive, joyful, celebratory like connotation behind it versus like using a set of values or behaviors as like mostly correction and very little celebration. Like, you're not doing this, you're not doing this, you're not doing this. But more on the other hand, of like, let's celebrate the ways that people are truly living this out. And again, it's both the behaviors are helpful for both, that feedback moment and the celebration. But I think it's mostly used for celebration. And when people are like being celebrated for living something out, you want to repeat that. You want to like emulate that feeling for somebody else when you got celebrated for something and creating such a positive connotation around our values and why we have them makes people want to use them and talk about them. Because I genuinely think that I would say most of the our staff, and maybe that's too big of a generalization, but like see the traders' 10 as like a good thing, not like a scary or bad list of things that they like have to do in order to stay employed here. They like see it as a life-giving thing that's like celebrated for living in the way of Jesus. And so I think it's a celebration culture. If I had to give my take on it, of like, and what we try to bring into the youth team as well to like help our youth pastors use and become familiar with that language as we celebrate it and frame our celebrations with that language.
Lauren Mallory 52:36
Yeah, I can tell you too, like having been off staff at Traders Point almost five months, I still remember all 10 behaviors and in so many ways have like carried those with me. Like they're just ingrained into my leadership and the way that I do ministry. And I don't know how many organizations could actually say that that's true. You know, that even after people step away, they still remember what the really specific cultural behaviors were, and that they were influential enough and impactful enough that they would want to continue to champion those. So just super cool what you guys are doing and the way the leadership's leading out there.
Brad Warren 53:06
Yeah, it's like the I'm I'm kind of identifying how this gets lost a little bit, I think, which is like like I said, every church has these. I know the Christchurch or Nago has like character uh like behaviors that they want their hosts, which is what they call all their volunteers, to like live out. I can't say what they are, and that kind of like bothers me, and maybe that's a me thing, and I need to like f get on top of like uh buying into their that culture a little bit more. But there also is when it comes to like not saying them enough and just using the words out loud. Did you guys ever listen to the podcast Mega? Did you ever listen to this? Okay. It was like a uh parody of a megachurch podcast. So it was like a group of improv people that hosted a podcast as if they were hosting a podcast for a mega church, and like all of the so I'm sure some of the people who are listening to this right now will know exactly what I'm talking about, but like all of it is super like kitschy and they use really like one click too clever language for things and like but it's very, very funny and also inappropriate and cannot be recommended on this podcast. But um there is like an aspect of it to me that is like you have to be willing if you want everybody inside the organization to understand, you have to be willing for people outside the organization to not get it too. Like if you're gonna be willing to use the language so that everybody is on the same page that's sitting around the table, then yeah, someone who's not sitting around the table is gonna hear it and be like, what is that about? You know what I mean? The words are gonna sound weird when they're used outside the context that they were like designed for. I don't know. That's not a question. It's just the thought that was in my brain.
Kylee Higgins 55:11
I think it's a great thought, and I'm so glad you recommended that podcast for everyone to go listen to.
Brad Warren 55:17
I want to be very clear. I do not recommend that podcast. Anyway, let's go through door number two.
Debriefs That Make Teams Better

Kylee Higgins 55:25
Okay, great. Can you remind me what was behind door number two?
Brad Warren 55:29
I can remind you what was behind door number two. I want to talk about um your cool you you talked about having a culture of like honesty when it comes to feedback and evaluation. And so, I mean, maybe we can even just like kind of real life example this thing and talk about how you guys so like we were all together this summer at Move and Mix. I'm sure you guys had many meetings where you talked through like, okay, how did move and mix go? You know, what do we love? What do we not love? What do we need to improve on? What do we need to celebrate? All these types of things. I'm curious how you protect your culture, protect the trust, protect the relationships while also being willing to say the things that need to be said and being able to be honest in a way that is not um offensive, but also being able to take feedback in a way where you do not get offended. And that's all really hard. So talk about it.
Kylee Higgins 56:29
Yeah. Man, the power of a debrief and like what a debrief and good evaluation can do for not only team culture, but like advancing the mission of whatever it is that you're trying to do. Um, I don't think I realized how special the evaluation and debrief culture was to Traders Point Youth until this summer we had an intern who went to camp with us. She wasn't a part of the planning meetings because she was a summer intern, but she went to camp with us. And she came back. She was a part of our big hours-long camp debrief that we did. And she was later debriefing with our next gen pastor, Ann Wilson. And she said, quote, I've never seen a group of people so excited to fix a bunch of problems that they created. That was like, that is like a crazy way to describe what she experienced in that room, which was like, we were all so excited to name all the things that went wrong so that we could fix them. And it was her outside perspective that helped me see that, oh man, there's something, there is something special about the way that we very honestly and authentically debrief. Um, what I think about some tools that we use to debrief, some like shared language that kind of helps us in those debriefs is we use um four helpful lists when we debrief. So right, wrong, missing, and confused. Um, and we always start with right. We always start with stories, we always start with celebrations, and we make sure that that category is like first, biggest, and like the most important thing that we talk about is like the way that God was able to move in spite of us, the things that we did well, the like life change and transformation that we got to witness as a result of like the things that we planned, but ultimately like God stewarded for us. So we always start with right, and then from there we move into like the the wrongness and confused in those categories. Our goal is always um that again, our right category is like our our biggest and the one that we spend the most time on because again, celebration culture, what gets celebrated gets repeated. Um, so that is kind of like the framework that we use for debrief. And then um I can't tell you exactly where this originated from. I know that I heard it from from the first time from our next gen pastor Ann Wilson. She talks about the difference when it comes to ideation and evaluation, the difference between a baby and a diamond. And we are a diamond culture, not a baby culture. And the idea of that is that you like jewels more than people.
Brad Warren 58:59
Got it.
Kylee Higgins 59:01
Write it on the wall, somebody remember it. Where your treasure is, where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. No, the idea of a baby in a diamond culture. So in a in a baby culture, if you will, everybody's idea is like their baby. And when you're when you have a new baby that comes into the world that somebody has spent nine months like growing and perfecting and is just like the truly the apple of their eye as the baby should be, you can't say anything about that baby, right? Like that baby's not ugly, that baby is not like got a weird-shaped head, that baby's not like crying at an appropriate time. That baby is like perfect to them, right? And like when our ideas are our babies, sometimes we can treat like our ideas and our contributions that way of like, this is mine, this is my baby, this is like something that I protect, nobody's allowed to look at it, nobody's allowed to touch it, nobody's allowed to like tweak it because like it's mine and I created it. And when you compare that culture to our ideas, our ideas are diamonds, which are they are these um precious things, like yes, gifts and precious things, but the more that you chip away at them, the more that you like pull back the layers and like the more you um again just begin to like chip away at those things, the better they actually become. And so we use that framework on the youth team that, like, hey, our ideas are diamonds, not babies. That like they are precious and they are good and they are gifts, but like the more that we chip away at them as a team, the actually the better that they get. And that doesn't mean that we all are perfect at this. There have been times where I've had an idea for camp or an event, and I'm like, I do think this is the best thing that I've ever created. But you guys can poke at it, you can say it's bad, you can, you know, you can, you can reflect on it, whatever. And then somebody says something and I'm like, wow, like that kind of hurt. That was my idea, that was my thing that I was working on. Um, so that it's not like a perfect metric to protect, but like when you as a team see your idea as like a collective good that everybody gets to chip away at to continue to make something better and the end product better for everybody and like a better result versus like my idea is something that I have to protect and you're not allowed to touch it. Um, it creates a healthier debrief culture because then you have this idea that while it was good, it's not perfect yet. And when everybody collaborates on one idea, um, then you ultimately get a better end product. And so that's some of the language that we use around debriefing and evaluating events and curriculum series and all of those things. And again, it's not perfect, feelings get hurt, and my feelings get hurt all the time because I'm an ideator. So I can sit in a room with four white walls and just think of ideas for days.
Brad Warren 1:01:45
Um the the I love that, and and this is language that I've used before too, and I'm just now kind of like having this realization in my mind that like if that is true, if Move if if if if Move 2026 at Taylor University for Traders Point Christian Church was a diamond, and it is something that your team refined together,
Babies Vs Diamonds And Humility

Brad Warren 1:02:10
you know what I mean? If it was something that was continuously improved upon by the gifts and talents and abilities that other people have, you know, and and it's something that truly, truly, truly, truly we brought into this world together, then like when you get to evaluation time, you're not and it's and it's time to evaluate your work, you're not singling out the contributions of individual people. You're saying like, hey, this thing that we did together, let's continue like to try to work on this. Let's continue to identify what what do we do really well, what do we do really poorly. But if you do have the baby culture and you get to this point and you're reflecting on a bunch of ideas that people had and were allowed to make and execute in silos, then when it's time to evaluate them, it's like hard to be honest because people have uh put their identity into the thing that they uh created.
Lauren Mallory 1:03:14
Yeah, I feel like some common language that can come up sometimes, like we've all been in the room where someone has really good feedback to give and and prefaces by saying, Okay, I know this is your baby, but right, like that just comes up so often. And I feel like it actually does create a barrier that leads to withholding really good feedback. And I love your guys' posture that it really is a like, hey, we love this thing enough that we're willing to actually say the hard thing to help make it better. And that, like you said, Brad, becomes a collective experience, not just one person having to defend something they've created. It's like, let's set it out in the middle of the table, let's all look at it together and see how we can refine it.
Brad Warren 1:03:50
And I'm gonna be honest, every baby has a weird-shaped head.
Lauren Mallory 1:03:53
Every baby, every baby that's like a big thing.
Brad Warren 1:03:56
I've never seen a single baby with a normal head.
Michael Hester 1:03:59
All my all my ideas get the proper amount of tummy time. I'm just gonna say that.
Kylee Higgins 1:04:03
There we go. That is such a crazy way to think about it. But you're right, every baby has a weird-shaped head. But every diamond is beautiful, you know?
Michael Hester 1:04:11
Shine belt. Oh, I mean, I think I I think, you know, baby.
Brad Warren 1:04:15
Oh, someone did that song at the alternative, right?
Kylee Higgins 1:04:18
Yeah.
Brad Warren 1:04:19
Oh, yeah. I almost said that student's gonna be a little bit more. Yes, it was amazing. They had a male.
Kylee Higgins 1:04:33
Michael was probably saying in the back, like, is the student really giving me production cues? And guess what he did? Guess what?
Brad Warren 1:04:39
Michael doesn't view the lighting as a baby, he views it as a diamond. Yeah. And it was a beautiful diamond.
Kylee Higgins 1:04:49
Well, also the same day the generator broke. Can you believe that that was all the same dog?
Michael Hester 1:04:53
And and I think we really had one. To really make the whole thing like even more uh of a moment was we had a generator tech show up in the middle of the alternative to like to just like make sure that the issue was just that it ran out of fuel and not something else. Um and we had been we had gone out and bought more fuel to refuel it up so we could do the the alternative like the way that it's supposed to be done with full production and everything. The generator tech turned off the generator on accident. In the middle of the alternative. In the middle of the alternative. Actually, really right before that kid's act. And and and of course, everyone was like, Oh no, we we lost power again. And he thought that he wasn't gonna get to do his show. I poked my pants a little bit. And then and I I ran out there really fast, and the guy was like, Oh, I'm sorry, and he got it turned back on, and everything was fine within five minutes.
Brad Warren 1:05:47
But uh, I just want to say when you talk about like we filled the generator back up with gas so that we had enough. I do not want anyone out there picturing Michael carrying a five gallon thing of.
Michael Hester 1:06:00
gas and like filling up a lawnmower for well how big was that thing's tank uh like 128 gallons or something i it was something like that I think yeah it was a ton of we um we had two uh production teams on site for that event and and the production team that wasn't doing anything we sent two of them to go buy as many gas cans as they could from one location. I think they bought 13 or 14 um and then they went to a gas station filled it up with diesel and then came back and they just started pouring diesel in there while we were doing our our unplugged session. I was gonna I had a thought on the whole like babies versus diamonds conversation. I just I think one of the things about babies is that babies are they only ever grow into the way that they're raised. And I think when you have like a baby idea culture then then when when an idea is someone's baby that idea really is only about the glorification of the person who came up with the idea. Which I think is just such an unhelpful an unhelpful process or unhelpful approach. But because diamonds are all about they come about by refinement um and it becomes that group project like Brad was pointing out when it comes time for reevaluation you're not singling anybody out. And it's not about the glorification of anybody. It's really just about making sure that we as a team are glorifying God. So I think that's I think that's a cool distinction babies versus diamonds.
Brad Warren 1:07:23
I had not heard that before well and the thing that's like kind of going unsaid here but needs to be said is that like the enemy of all of this is pride which is a sin. Yeah and so like let's just not do that. You know what I mean? Like I I know that's a little bit blunt. I'm a little bit blunt. I get it. But like if you have connected yourself so intimately to your idea and you want gratification, glorification for that idea. You want people to appreciate that idea and see your value based on that idea it's like that's that's just like textbook pride and it's not helpful for you. It's not helpful for the kingdom it's not helpful for your team culture like don't do it.
Kylee Higgins 1:08:10
That was actually yeah another thought that I had as we were processing too is like I think a a diamond culture thrives in humility because at the end of the day like if you are not willing to let your idea be chipped away at by like the entire team then like there is something vulnerable in that but it takes humility and like the reality too is that sometimes an idea is really bad and it needs some ownership of like somebody needs to own for the sake of the team like hey that was mine and I I dropped the ball here something didn't go quite the way that I planned here's what I meant to do but my intentions were different and like all of those things exist too. And if you if your diamond culture isn't marked by humble people then it's gonna be a lot harder to chip away at those ideas. And so it's not the the power of it is not even in saying to a room like hey we're gonna tomorrow we're gonna become a diamond culture, right? Like that's a hard thing to shift but so much of the credit of our team like truly grasping that idea of the diamond culture is that like we have a team full of people that like their character is marked by humility. And like when your character is humble then a diamond culture can thrive because a humble person will be the first one to say that was my idea and it was not good. Please chip away at it and like so so much of that works because of the humility of the people in the room. And so when it comes to like building a culture around debrief like the first question is like Lord search me and know my heart like my motivations because if my motivation is not to like own or confess the thing that I did wrong like or the thing that just not even wrong but like didn't go the way that I wanted it to, then it's gonna make it harder for the team to like chip away at something. And so every debrief starts with like Lord search me and like what is mine to own and what can I help everybody else improve on in that idea. And so so much of the credit of that actually working um in a room like that is like the character of the people around the table. And like our youth pastors are so humble that they're like take it make it better you know um yeah so Brad that's a great point though.
Brad Warren 1:10:20
Yeah and I also wonder how many like if the culture is like the baby culture um we are so committed to this metaphor. Um then like time is what really got yeah that is so good. But like if the culture is baby culture, like I wonder how many like mostly good ideas haven't been brought to the table because people feel exposed and it's like if this doesn't go well then it's going to be entirely on me or it's gonna reflect entirely on me instead of being willing to I worked at a church that had a really great culture around this and like we had this uh kind of catchphrase that we would say all the time in meetings where it was like this might be the worst idea of all time. But like and just being willing to like throw the bad idea out there because there might be something there that we can all kind of like discover together and that can be a really beautiful thing as well that just would not happen in a culture where it's like we feel like we are being protective of andor defined by our successes and our failures.
Kylee Higgins 1:11:31
Yeah when I think about the the Traderspoint youth team it's so like I love what you're saying that it's so important to have a space where like even the worst ideas are going to be welcomed with open arms for a moment. You know like if people don't feel free to throw out their ideas, then like how many good ideas were like one or two brainstorms away from like actually being the thing that was going to work that was going to advance the mission that was going to like help reach people for the gospel but because the culture felt so unsafe to even say the messy thing, then like it just never gets said. And there are so our team has been laughing about this a lot the past couple of weeks um our team currently and our youth pastors would say this has very few inventors on it. We have very few people right now that thrive in like a let's throw every thought that we've ever had and every idea up against the wall and see what sticks. We have a lot of like implementers, galvanizers, like people that want to take an idea and run with it, but very few people that love to just sit and brainstorm. But the beauty of having a culture where it's safe to throw out every idea is that those people who are like natural ideators and can just come up with a million ideas can just keep throwing ideas into the room. And then the people who have a picture for what it would look like to galvanize people towards that thing or how what pieces of the system and process would fit together to make it work can then like take every idea good or bad and then also become part of like the discovery and like designing process of an idea. But if you have a room full of people who um maybe aren't as comfortable with like sitting with a messy idea and trying to make it better, then like there is a lot of pressure for like the one good idea that gets thrown out to be the right idea. And we have a lot of people on our team that are really good at taking a bad idea and making it good. And we've got plenty of people with bad ideas. I'm one of them on our team and so that like really helps to make like a a healthy culture of feedback too when all ideas are welcome at the table good or bad because we can usually do something with them even if it means making a different end product out of like
Final Takeaways And How To Connect

Kylee Higgins 1:13:40
whatever the original idea was.
Brad Warren 1:13:42
I'm gonna throw out a bad idea and I'm open to feedback. I love bad ideas, Brad let's end this podcast no well we've used we've we're we're out of time I'm just and I do have to be honest we're gonna record another episode here in a minute and I have to pee. I feel like you're after we can another podcaster well that is something you need to spend some time meditating on because that's not what's happening. We do love you though and we're glad that you're here and I hope I'm invited back to Traders Points Move. I'll see any dog I already sent one to Michael I'm gonna have to go back through my email I don't think I did anyway appreciate you being here this was a very good conversation so thank you so much for the way that you lead your team and for letting us kind of uh be able to glean from some of the things that you've done really intentionally in order to maintain that with them. Thank you.
Joel Yates 1:14:59
Hey everyone my name's Joel Yates and I work on our Youth Minister Advocates team. I've been on staff for about nine years. I get to work with churches new to CIY and lock them through their first year. CIY exists to call youth to Christ and into lives a kingdom work through the church. Today's episode of Beyond the Event was produced by Brad Warren, Michael Hester and Lauren Bryan if you'd like to connect with us you can email us at podcast atci.com or reach out on the CIY Community Facebook group. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next time

We call youth to Christ and into a life of Kingdom Work through His Church.

Beyond the Event

A youth ministry podcast presented by Christ In Youth Where we help you maintain momentum between the mountaintops

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